Curse

Rahne Sinclaire · May 29, 2005, 03:51 PM // 15:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xellos

But not everyone is a turtle at the game, some people are rabbits, and like to zip through. It isn't compel, rather it's just their nature.

Well if that's their nature, they should find a game that emphasizes going through at a quick pace, rather than taking your time.

Xellos · May 29, 2005, 03:58 PM // 15:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahne Sinclaire

Well if that's their nature, they should find a game that emphasizes going through at a quick pace, rather than taking your time.

Which is exactly what guild wars was advertised to be duh? Since when was grinding and slow-paced thousand of hours content advertised on this game? I don't see it on the box. I see skill-based competition as a advertisement over time-based.

Rahne Sinclaire · May 29, 2005, 04:00 PM // 16:00

Regardless of how the game is advertised, most games take time and patience to become good at. Particularly ones that encourage PvP.
If someone wants to play a game where they don't have to work a little to become good at it, pick up a fighting game. If you want something with a little more drive to it, pick up GW.
Duh?

Xellos · May 29, 2005, 04:06 PM // 16:06

Quote:

Regardless of how the game is advertised, most games take time and patience to become good at

But currently, the item advantage is high enough that people would rather take their time to get that consistant variable over the inconsistant skill variable. Are you saying advertisements are allowed to plain lie? If so, please do so with your next product, so I may sue you out of your pants.

Quote:

If someone wants to play a game where they don't have to work a little to become good at it, pick up a fighting game.

This is a fighting game. Guild WARS? A tiny rpg element obviously has completely shrouded peoples visions.

Quote:

If you want something with a little more drive to it, pick up GW.

A fighting game can last a very long time too, and have very high drives. Look back before computer games are like they are. Marvel vs Capcom was played and mastered for hours. Guild Wars is just a RPG that emphasizes combat, combat which relies on skill, not time. And time is money, which equates to materials, which equates to items. And therefore, since items are important in combat, the game emphasizes on time, though lesser then other games, it still does a significant amount.

Quote:

Duh?

Many people come from games like CS, Starcraft, Halo, all sorts of competitive games that don't require grind to play competitively. Are you saying all these people read the damn box wrong? Sorry, but don't be a smartass to me when you can only see from your side of the road.

Loviatar · May 29, 2005, 04:12 PM // 16:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xellos

Which is exactly what guild wars was advertised to be duh? Since when was grinding and slow-paced thousand of hours content advertised on this game? I don't see it on the box. I see skill-based competition as a advertisement over time-based.

on a different thread awhile ago a hardcore pvp said that several hours a day practice was needed to be in the top rungs of the ladder

to me that amount of time investment sounds exactly what you are argueing against which is a grind requireing massive time spent instead of skill

Rahne Sinclaire · May 29, 2005, 04:13 PM // 16:13

I was only a smartass because you started being asinine to me.
If people are so damn displeased with having to actually do something before they can get complete satisfaction from the game, then they should just quit. No skin off my nose.
I never grinded in GW, and I play just fine at my own pace. Problem is, people are so impatient and want everything handed to them. This isn't that type of game. If your problem is equipment, there is plenty to be found very, very easily. If you can't find a PT that works to your standards, drop it and keep looking.
No, it's not a fighting game. It's an Action RPG. Just because you fight other people doesn't make this game a "Fighting Game".

CatLady · May 29, 2005, 04:54 PM // 16:54

I like this game a lot...but to address the issue of PvE replayability:

I personally find that replaying the missions is rather boring. Sure, they're fun the first time around, but after that, they're more tedious than anything else, to me. Particularly the missions that make people lug things around and pull levers. I don't like pulling levers, if I wanted to do that over and over, I'd play TombRaider.

But 'walking' to places, so far that doesn't get old. I'm not sure why not. Maybe I feel less restricted, even if it the pathways are still rather linear.
I also find that I enjoy this game (pvE) more when I skip days - ie, I'll play for several hours for a day, then not at all for a couple days. If I play a few hours every day, I find I start to get annoyed with certain things about the game (like how rez shrines are so few and far between at times, making a really long walk to get back to where you were), more often. If I break inbetween a while, when I do play, I love it. I don't know how often you play, but you might try that.

I don't see myself creating a new character more than a 3 or 4 times, tho - it would get too unbearable to re-play the first half of the game yet again etc.

May 29, 2005, 06:48 PM // 18:48

Well, as people have pointed out before skill selection in PvE is incredibly terrible. Warriors and Monks get skills early enough in the game to make them viable for a long time. Everyone else? Some stuff here and there that you'll barely be able to take off your bar not only because your choices are horrible, but because you cant make anything else.

Death Necros have it the worst where the 3 big bad Death spells are in like Southern Shiverpeaks. You cant play a water Ele, an Expertise ranger, a curse necro, a sword warrior, a smiting monk or even a decent domination mesmer all because you're put on an artificial railroad from the beginning.

ArenaNet gives you the skills that they think are good enough for that part of the game which stiffles creativity and experimentation. By the time you find all the skills you might want you're in the Southern Shiverpeaks and almost at the last areas of the game. E3 was fun because you could find many skills early in the game and experiment-now that isn't possible. The GvG ladder is dead, Tombs is a spot to run gimmick builds and the PvE is mind numbingly boring after the 2nd time through. The economy is in a rut and there are many people that are not satisfied with the game.

Thankfully ArenaNet is trying to resolve the problems. But no amount of fanboyism is going to get their attention because people first have to admit their is a problem with this game and stop being biased. Look at the facts of what's going and stop mindless trolls.

Xellos · May 29, 2005, 06:57 PM // 18:57

Quote:

on a different thread awhile ago a hardcore pvp said that several hours a day practice was needed to be in the top rungs of the ladder

Your point below?

Quote:

to me that amount of time investment sounds exactly what you are argueing against which is a grind requireing massive time spent instead of skill

That's stupid. You farm for runes, you have 0% control over how fast you get runes. Pure chance. You spend time to get better, your learning ability and skill and your own personal abilities come into play. What kind of comparison is this?

Quote:

If people are so damn displeased with having to actually do something before they can get complete satisfaction from the game, then they should just quit

How about you just stop whining about people whining? Your not forced to read posts or reply to them. If your going to whine over things that you can control on your part, stop, because that is a true sign of a whiner.

Quote:

Thankfully ArenaNet is trying to resolve the problems. But no amount of fanboyism is going to get their attention because people first have to admit their is a problem with this game and stop being biased. Look at the facts of what's going and stop mindless trolls.

Ha, like that's ever going to happen.

eventhorizen · May 29, 2005, 07:43 PM // 19:43

Yes your right, farming for runes is a boring grind. Thats why im glad a.net fixed the drakes and have random rune spawns now. Stops farmers like yourself flooding markets, becoming overpowered thanks to your superior runes of every god damn skill harvested 10 in a day.
Now its harder to grind them, though there are still hotspots.

Now id like you to consider the game you have purchased. Wizards and warriors and demons and magic and swords and dragons and monks and other crap.
Thats right, not counterstrike.
I dont care if you despise the lavish background that goes along with your characters in battle. Its there, face it.

I bought Guild Wars expecting some kind of complex mmorpg. Had I thought it was Quake 3 with wizards I wouldnt be here now.

Guess who's happy with the game?

Go back to counterstrike, and keep your muttering low so as not to disturb anyone on your way out. Thank you.

DismalClown · May 29, 2005, 09:41 PM // 21:41

I like it I think it's a good game. I find mmogs too unbalanced and gankfesty. And first person shooter pvps too lacking in strategy. With this game I get pvp competition, story, character development and customization, and strategy. Being a fan of rpg's, strategy games and competitive games it fits me like a glove.

I like that fact that a game company is trying something new. If I didn't like it I wouldn't complain on some forum I would just move on to a new game. I don't like Halo but I have never posted on a Halo forum how I don't like. What's the point?

Hell Marauder · Jun 03, 2005, 12:14 AM // 00:14

If you guys think skill selection is terrible, well, how about your second profession; it's there for a reason. Don't tell me the skill selection for your second profession is bad, too. And for those who complains grinding, name a RPG that has less grinding than GW. Thank you.

Jun 03, 2005, 12:21 AM // 00:21

Did you see the part about stop trolling?

Ninna · Jun 03, 2005, 01:06 AM // 01:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xellos

currently, the item advantage is high enough that people would rather take their time to get that consistant variable over the inconsistant skill variable.

while I dont think having *all skills* is a required to be competitive

you do have a good point about the farming for gear/cash

The Pope · Jun 03, 2005, 01:57 AM // 01:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahne Sinclaire

Regardless of how the game is advertised, most games take time and patience to become good at. Particularly ones that encourage PvP.
If someone wants to play a game where they don't have to work a little to become good at it, pick up a fighting game. If you want something with a little more drive to it, pick up GW.
Duh?

A good FPS or RTS takes a hundred times the effort to be good, because you actually have to achieve something rather than just spend a long time. Stop trying to claim clicking on 7000 flesh golems is legitimate work. Getting your build order so efficient that you can start pumping out respectable armies 2 minutes into an RTS game is earning your PvP power. Learning to hit shock combos so well that you can knock someone out of the air with one is earning your PvP power. Picking up a randomly assigned item isn't.

Guild Wars doesn't take much to be good TBH. You need to have a group of players who work together, have an ability to time button presses (don't even need to aim the mouse cursor or anythign complex like that) and have some good items. I find it far easier than UT2004, Dawn of War or CS:S. What Guild Wars has is artificial constraints on player skill like rune grind and elite skills.

Why am I playing it? Because the core game is fun.

Spark · Jun 03, 2005, 02:00 AM // 02:00

I have to agree about the skill selection being horrible. I started my Elementalist on...air. Yes, air. I had 1, maybe 2 skills before I left Old Ascalon. I think I got my 3rd at Yak's Bend. That sucked. =/ I wanted to use an element OTHER THAN FIRE but the game FORCED me to spec fire. Not persauded me, made it seem the better option, they simply didn't give me any other skills to work with. It wasn't until I hit around level 15-16 that I could fill my bar with Air and my secondary skills. I'm staying fire as I started enjoying it but I hate how every elementalist I make will have to choose the same element early on. How boring.

Jab · Jun 03, 2005, 02:36 AM // 02:36

I think they really need to let you have more of a choice in the early game when it comes to skills. Such as allow you to pick 2 or 3 from a list of 6 skills. Instead of automatically giving you 2 or 3 skills that you might not even use/want .

SpeedMann · Jun 03, 2005, 03:28 AM // 03:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tricia

I really have no idea why people have to sound so sarcastic in these forums where all I'm doing is voicing out my thoughts. *sigh*

Yes you can get kicked out of the group when you're in town. I got invited into a group and then got kicked out of it again when they realise I'm not a monk. Is that so surprising?

What's with all the sacarsm with these people?

Tricia

That's what you get 90% of the time on any forum. It does suck, but people never grow up i guess.

Regarding your grouping problem. Maybe try to get your own group, invite people you want. Might work better for you. You probably do that too but thought i'd throw it out there anyways.

95% of the people playing Guild Wars are professionals and know-it-all's. So making a mistake gets under their skin and your an instant newb. I wish i could be as great as those people.

AirOnG · Jun 03, 2005, 03:31 AM // 03:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviator

on a different thread awhile ago a hardcore pvp said that several hours a day practice was needed to be in the top rungs of the ladder

to me that amount of time investment sounds exactly what you are argueing against which is a grind requireing massive time spent instead of skill

Just because something requires a great deal of time does not mean it is a grind ^^ In fact, learning a game is a skillful endeavor.

For example, take two people who both spend 1000 hours learning and practicing a game with some depth. At the end of those 1000 hours, those two players often have disparate abilities in the game. One's ability is often determined by how one approaches learning the game and executing their strategies and also drawing from past gameplaying experiences To a degree, there is also an element of intrinsic ability.

Kymber · Jun 03, 2005, 03:36 AM // 03:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xellos

But currently, the item advantage is high enough that people would rather take their time to get that consistant variable over the inconsistant skill variable. Are you saying advertisements are allowed to plain lie? If so, please do so with your next product, so I may sue you out of your pants.

Whether you agree or not, the fact of the matter is, you're not required to play the PvE portion in this game at all. You can start a L20 PvP character right from the start and jump in on the 'instant action'. Thus, their advertising is completely valid. The game includes everything they say that it does and a lot more. Obviously there are benefits to exploring all aspects of the game and spending time in each, but that doesn't mean it's required.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xellos

This is a fighting game. Guild WARS? A tiny rpg element obviously has completely shrouded peoples visions.

The RPG portion of this game is very streamlined but heavily present. This is not solely a fighting game anymore than any other RPG. Besides, as everyone knows, 'fighting game' refers to a 1 vs 1 action fighting game of the particular genre. Don't try to be sly and twist the subject to prove your point. The nomenclature of 'fighting game' was perfectly clear.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xellos

A fighting game can last a very long time too, and have very high drives. Look back before computer games are like they are. Marvel vs Capcom was played and mastered for hours. Guild Wars is just a RPG that emphasizes combat, combat which relies on skill, not time. And time is money, which equates to materials, which equates to items. And therefore, since items are important in combat, the game emphasizes on time, though lesser then other games, it still does a significant amount.

This is true, but then it was never said that the game didn't take time to master or even to progress in. It wouldn't be much of a game if it didn't offer a challenge and long-term goals that people can work towards. Having these things is not a misrepresentation or bad design. Games require these things to keep the people interested. This game does not require you to invest time into it to play it, but if you want to excel at it, then like everything else in life, you must work at it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xellos

Many people come from games like CS, Starcraft, Halo, all sorts of competitive games that don't require grind to play competitively. Are you saying all these people read the damn box wrong? Sorry, but don't be a smartass to me when you can only see from your side of the road.

Comparing apples to oranges. Comparisons between FPS's, RTS's and other such games mean nothing to a slimmed down version of an MMORPG. That's why its it's own genre. Because it has its own definitions and methodologies for playing the game. That's like comparing cars to airplanes, boats, or even motorcycles. Yes, they're all vehicles of transportation, but they're all completely separate of each other and distinct in their own ways. You can't compare the mechanics of one to the mechanics to the other. If you could, why don't sports exist where planes race cars around a track?

Lastly, all games are competitive. That's a completely useless statement. The competition is what creates the game. Competition against a computer opponent, competition against real opponents, it makes no difference. Even puzzle games, you're trying to beat the clock.

If you're going to flame others for something, try to be sure you're not doing the same things.

- Kymber